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Monday, July 23rd, 2018



Do we really need to hear any more stories like this? Is it not evident these dogs should not be kept as pets? From the AP:

MEMPHIS, Tenn. — Two pit bull dogs ripped off a man’s left hand and badly mauled his right arm before other people were able to beat the dogs away. “I couldn’t believe I wasn’t dead,” James Chapple said from his hospital bed. “I’m going to church every day when I get out of here and talk to the man upstairs.”

Chapple, 59, had just gotten off a bus and was walking home on Feb. 9 when the dogs ran out from an auto repair business, knocked him down and started biting. In a bedside interview Wednesday, he said he yelled for help and one pedestrian grabbed a stick to hit the dogs but was unable to get them to stop.

“I was kicking and screaming at them to let me go, but they kept dragging me — they had my hand and wouldn’t let go,” Chapple said. He passed out and didn’t wake up until he was in an ambulance. Doctors had to amputate his lower left arm, but they saved his right arm. Chapple also suffered bites on his legs and one ear.

Memphis Animal Services captured the dogs and will euthanize them, authorities said. Charles Lawson, who co-owns the business, said the dogs were guarding the shop and belong to his partner. He said he didn’t know how the dogs got out, but declined to comment further.

What redeeming qualities do they possess that we should allow them to be residential pets? Guard dogs? More like attack dogs:

Pit bulls, descendants of the bulldogs used in the nineteenth century for bull baiting and dogfighting, have been bred for “gameness,” and thus a lowered inhibition to aggression. Most dogs fight as a last resort, when staring and growling fail. A pit bull is willing to fight with little or no provocation. Pit bulls seem to have a high tolerance for pain, making it possible for them to fight to the point of exhaustion. Whereas guard dogs like German shepherds usually attempt to restrain those they perceive to be threats by biting and holding, pit bulls try to inflict the maximum amount of damage on an opponent. They bite, hold, shake, and tear. They don’t growl or assume an aggressive facial expression as warning. They just attack.

They’ve been banned in many places around the world. I understand that all Pit Bulls are not going to attack people. But I have no problem with a generalization here. We really won’t be missing out on anything if we ban them. Unless I’m missing something. By all means, educate me if need be.

  • http://www.sempereformanda.blogspot.com Brett

    I’m with you Zoner. Have you ever noticed that these dogs tend to be owned by people who have very serious self-esteem problems, usually manifest in a machismo spirit? In my experience, dogs are frequently an extension of a personality or a desired trait.

  • Kathleen

    I own a pit bull who is a loving, loyal, adorable house pet. He has been showered with love (and discipline) since he was born and at five years old he has never harmed any living thing. He is more likely to lick a stranger to death than bite him. He plays rough with me (we wrestle and he “pretends” to bite me), yet he is as gentle as a butterfly with babies and toddlers.

    With that said, I would NEVER leave him alone with a stranger or a small child. He is a DOG which means he is lead by INSTINCT FIRST. I watch him struggle to overcome his instincts all the time, and in most cases he ONLY overcomes them to please me. Personally, I always assume any animal is unpredictable, even in what seems to be the most predictable of circumstances.

    People forget that there several hundred thousand pit bulls in this country, and less than 2 percent of them will ever hurt a human being. Unfortunately, there are alot of idiots out there who want a mean dog and they pick a pit bull or rottweiler and turn them into monsters and every pit and rott gets a bad rap.

  • Shocker.

    The problem is, when they do attack, they are extremely deadly. If one innocent man loses his hand like that, it’s one man too many. I’m all for outlawing these dogs. I don’t think people should be allowed to own a dog that they are afraid to leave alone with anyone. At that point, the animal becomes a threat to society. No owner can expect to be with their animal at all times, even the good owners. And as the last poster points out…even they wouldn’t leave their well trained obedient dog alone with a stranger or small child. Case closed for me.

  • Kathleen

    A “sweet-natured” golden retriever that was left alone with me when I was ten years old attacked me suddenly and bit me in the face. Luckily my cousin beat the “sweet family pet who’d never hurt anyone” off of me with a broomstick before I lost more than the flesh above my eye. That experience left me believing ANY ANIMAL is unpredictable so I am careful not to leave my dog alone with strangers or small children.

  • http://zonersports.com The Zoner

    Hi Kathleen-

    Bet you didn’t think you’d come to a sports blog to talk about pit bulls, huh?

    Anyway, even if we assume all animals are unpredictable, they are not all as deadly and vicious as pit bulls. So the crazy neighborhood cat is not causing the same havoc as the crazy neighborhood pit.

    And while I’m sure you are diligent with giving your pit love, discipline and care, it’s your fellow pit owners that are making it very difficult for you.

    I had a friend growing up who had 2 of them. Sweet as could be. But neighbors had to call when they wanted to let their dogs out because it was entirely possible the pits would kill them.

    I just think we are better off without them as domestic, residential pets.

  • http://courtjester.livejournal.com Mike O’Donnell

    I think that they should be considered along the lines of deadly weapons. The owners whose pits attack should be prosecuted for not properly handling a deadly weapon. There are plenty of other dog breeds available to someone who wants a pet. The breed should be eliminated.
    No one ever hears about Beagle attacks.

  • Kathleen

    I was a pitbull hater once so I understand the negative attitudes toward them. Now that I own one, I see that it really is the owner who determines how the dog behaves.

    The reality is it’s not the breed it is the upbringing. My dog has never been hit or kicked, nor do I use fear or intimidation to correct his behavior. If I say “you’re in trouble” to my pit he immediately lays down on the floor with his snout on his paws and waits for me to say he can move. If he has a juicy delicious turkey leg in his jaws and I say “drop it” he will immediately spit it out. (Yes, I’ve tested this).

    Contrary to the mythology, his jaws don’t “lock” (though when we play tug of war, he does always win). He loves to play with other dogs, and has NEVER broken the skin of any animal, though he did once hold a doberman/rott mix who attacked him down by the throat) though the dog left a puncture wound on his back, he did not try to kill the dog, because he has been trained not to bite. (something we started when he was a few weeks old with the simple command “no biting”)

    He is allowed to “play fight” with us, and he loves to tear up stuffed animals, but if I set a stuffed bear in front of him and say “no biting” he will lick the bear instead.

    Doesn’t it make sense that people who want scary dogs get pits or rotts — then treat them mean so they will become aggressive? If you ban pits and rotts these idiots will simply get dobermans and shepards instead and then you will hear of increases of maulings by those breeds!

    I know someone who keeps three pits in his backyard and he won’t allow anyone to talk to or touch his dogs because he got them for the specific purpose of attacking strangers who come in his yard. He WANTS them to attack any stranger (which unfortunately includes any child who happens to climbs the fence). I pray those dogs never escape from the yard!

    But, if they were German Shepards or labs, they would be equally dangerous!

    I am totally for “dangerous dog” legislation if it includes DANGEROUS OWNERS as the main cause of these incidents.

    There are experts who study dog aggression and they all agree that upbringing not breed determines a dog’s dangerousness

    These are the conclusions of their studies:

    “Pit bulls” are not inherently or genetically different than other breeds.

    The top 4 biters by breed are German Shepherds, Rottweillers, Cocker Spaniels, and Golden Retrievers.

    Bites by “pit bull” type dogs account for less than 5% of all serious bites in Canada.

    It is a myth that “pit bull” type dogs are unique in how they attack. Other breeds also have a bite and hold pattern.

    There is no qualitative difference between a serious attack by a “pit bull” and one by another breed of a comparable size.

    A bite and hold attack is not qualitatively more severe than a series of slashing bites typical for a breed like the German Shepherd.

    80% of bite victims are children who will be bitten in their home or at a neighbour’s by the family dog. Research shows that just 1 hour of dog safety training in grades 2 and 3 can reduce these attacks by 80%.

  • http://zonersports.com The Zoner

    I’m not a pit bull hater–I love them. A neighbor has a one (albeit a mixed breed) and it’s a great dog. All breeds bite–agreed. But none like the pit, who bite to kill.

    “The (Federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention), the American Veterinary Medical Association and the Humane Society of the United States examined 20 years of dog-bite data and concluded that pit bulls and Rottweilers caused the most deaths.”

    Even PETA thinks banning pits is a good thing.

    That’s good enough for me. Looks as if we’ll agree to disagree. I just don’t think they should be domestic, residential pets.

  • Elaine

    Here’s another article about yet another person attacked. Note that he was attacked by his own dog that had never shown any previous signs of aggression. I don’t blame the pit bulls so much as the people who insist on keeping them legal. Quite frankly, the blood is on their hands:

    Dog attack victim remains critical but stable

    Tuesday, January 30, 2007
    Steve Hankins

    A Dunklin County man remains in critical but stable condition at a Memphis hospital as the result of a Jan. 1 pit bull dog attack, a family spokesman said Monday.
    The family member, who requested anonymity, said Keith Allen Sawyers, 50, of Dunklin County Road 701, was attacked by his own dog, and that the 95-pound animal named “Thumper” never displayed aggression toward anyone prior to the New Years Day mauling.

    “The dog chewed of the lower part of his face and part of his neck,” the source said. “All the muscles on the lower part of his face.

    “It didn’t take off the jawbone,” the family member added. “The dog bit through his right eye, and he’ll most likely be blind in that eye.”

    Dunklin County deputies and emergency management services personnel responded to a 911 call at 2:05 a.m. Jan. 1,Dunklin County Sheriff Bob Holder said.

    The front door of the home was open, and family members saw the dog standing in the doorway with blood on its face, Holder said.

    “[Sawyers] don’t remember what happened,” the source said. “He don’t know he was attacked by his dog.

    “Doyle Malone found him,” the source continued. “He found him laying in the yard on New Years Day. What the dog done, it chewed off the lower part of his face, took off both ears, bit his eye and it pulled out all his hair.”

    Sawyers, and electrician who works for Tom McCall of Caruthersville, was found covered in blood in the back yard of the home, police said.

    “The accident must have happened on the outside [of the home],” the family member said. “The only thing we can figure is maybe [Sawyers] got up and went outside to go to the bathroom and the dog seen him, thought he was an intruder, and might have attacked him that way.

    “He raised that dog from a pup,” the source added. “He had him for three years.”

    Thumper lived inside the home, a small frame structure that is located across from a large open farm shop near Missouri NN and Dunklin County Road 701.

    “The dog slept right on the bed with [Sawyers],” the source said.

    The family member added that Sawyers is “kept unconscious” by his physicians.

    “He’s paralyzed so he don’t move his jaws,” the source said. “He’s had two surgeries on his face and one on his stomach because he jerked the feeding tube out of his stomach. They expect him to make a full recovery, but he’ll be blind in one eye. It’s just going to be a long, drawed-out deal. We really don’t know for sure how long it’s going to be — how long he’s going to have to stay at The Med.”

    The source described the white and brown Thumper as “a playful dog,” and emphasized rumors indicated Sawyers was killed by the animal.

    “He’s very much alive,” the source said. “He got saved right after all this happened.

    “A friend of mine that I met down there at the hospital come in, prayed with him and he got changed that day,” the family member added. “We’re getting ready to move everything out of his house.

    Officers at the scene shot the dog at the family’s request, Holder said.

    The attack is the first to take place in the county in recent memory, and the first to occur since Kennett councilmen took measures to ban the animals within the city limits.

    However, no such ordinance is in place within Dunklin County, Presiding Commissioner Don Collins said.

    The Kennett council considered defining pit bulls and similar breeds as dangerous dogs since 2001 before adding them to the list of dangerous animals in 2006.

    It is illegal to own pit bull terriers and other breeds derived from pit bulls in Kennett and in many Bootheel cities.

    Arbyrd adopted a dangerous dog ordinance in 2006 that makes ownership of such animals within the city limits a misdemeanor.

    Attacks by pit bulls accounted for about a third of the 238 fatal dog attacks in the United States during a 20-year study, according to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the San Francisco Chronicle reported.

    Pit bulls were blamed for killing 76 people, or 32 percent, during a study of dog attacks from 1979-1998, the study showed. Rottweilers were the second most deadly animal, reportedly killing 44 people, or 18.5 percent, during the same period, the publication reported.”

  • Kathleen

    PETA’s official stand on Pit Bulls does not support an ownership ban due to aggression, but it does support a breeding ban (mandatory spay/neuter)due to abuse of pit bulls at the hands of owners:

    “…Pit bulls are the most abused breed of dog, and it is the relentless abuse of these dogs at the hands of cruel people that motivates our efforts to stop people from bringing more pit bulls into the world to be hurt and exploited.

    Frankly, when shelters are destroying dogs by the tens of thousands, why breed more pit bulls or more of any dog? There are many wonderful dogs in animal shelters who need homes. PETA urges everyone who can provide a dog with a permanent, loving home to adopt one of these animals and have him or her neutered or spayed.”



  • Kathleen

    “In 2000, a 4-pound Pomeranian killed an infant when the baby’s uncle left them together for a short while. Any dog can be turned into a dangerous dog — as in the case of the Pomeranian, who was turned into a dangerous dog when a person created a dangerous situation.”

    In Kansas, a 13 day old infant was sleeping in his crib with the bedroom door open. The family’s Airdale Terrier entered the room, jumped onto an adjacent bed and into the crib, and killed the infant. The dog belonged to the family for nine years and had not shown any aggression

    In Arkansas, an elderly woman took some table scraps out to feed her neighbors two Great Danes. One of the dogs managed to grab her through a hole in the fence and pull her though where she was killed by the dogs.

    A mixed breed German Shepherd attached to a 50 foot chain jumped through a window and killed a 7-week old baby inside the house. The owner admitted the dog was primarily used as a guard dog and was routinely teased by the neighbor kids.

    [source; Fatal Dog Attacks by Karen Delise

    In the wake of a horrific streak of bloody maulings, pit bulls have gained a reputation as the country’s deadliest dogs.

    But experts disagree about whether pit bulls are inherently more dangerous — or just the latest breed in vogue among irresponsible dog owners.

    After all, German shepherds killed more people than any other dog in the late 1970s, when many people favored the breed for its fierce reputation. Then, for two years, it was Great Danes. Rottweilers topped the list of killer dogs through most of the ’90s, according to a study by the Centers for Disease Control.

    Though the average number of dog-related fatalities has remained consistent since the 1960s (approximately 20 per year), the breed responsible for the fatalities has changed. Lately, pit bulls have been the main culprit, accounting for 45 of the 145 fatalities since 1999, according to a Chronicle analysis of dog fatality data collected by the National Canine Research Foundation. Rottweilers ranked second with 25 attacks.

    Other unexpected breeds have killed people, too. For instance, a tiny Pomeranian mix climbed up on a bed and killed a 6-week-old girl in Southern California in 2000. Because fatal maulings are so rare, some dog experts say it’s unfair to blacklist an entire breed based on a few vicious attacks.

    “You can’t base your assumptions about a whole breed’s behavior on three or four dogs,” said Karen Delise, founder of the National Canine Research Foundation, who has conducted extensive dog fatality studies.

    While even their defenders concede that powerful breeds, like pit bulls and rottweilers, can kill more easily than miniature poodles or cocker spaniels, many insist the deaths have more to do with fads in ownership than problems with the breed itself.

    “In the early to mid-1990s, rottweilers became the tough-guy dog,” said Crosby. “They were the macho dog to own amongst people who were not particularly responsible owners.” Now it’s pit bulls, says Eric Sakach of the United States Humane Society. Sakach said some people are specifically breeding pit bulls for fighting and aggression, which in turn can lead to more deadly attacks.

    Kenneth Phillips, a Southern California lawyer who has devoted his career exclusively to dog bite cases, says all kinds of dogs bite — not just the ones people think of as dangerous.

    Indeed, some of the most severe injuries his clients have faced came from dachshunds. “If they bite you, they just rip off your face,” he said.

    Another limitation with dog bite statistics is they generally do not take into account the popularity of the dogs: One breed may account for more attacks than another, simply because the breed is more common.

    Delise, who studied dog fatalities dating back to 1965 for her book “Fatal Dog Attacks,” has identified numerous patterns in the most serious attacks. She argues that the patterns are more important than the breed.

    For instance, dogs kept on chains or for protection posed a much bigger danger than family dogs kept in houses. Most deadly dogs were males. Only a minority of dogs had been spayed or neutered. Many cases involved owners who neglected or abused their dogs, she said.

    In one case, the owner had previously been reported for beating his dog with a hammer. Another involved a dog that was starving to death on his chain. By far the majority of those who died from dog attacks were children — usually unsupervised. A scenario that comes up again and again in the data is the toddler who wanders up to a dog chained in a backyard when no one is watching.

    Several infants, left on a floor or bed, have also been killed by a family dog.

    In one case, a German shepherd killed an infant by picking it up and carrying it to his family in the living room in what may have been a friendly gesture.

    Delise’s research revealed only a tiny number of dog attack fatality cases — perhaps two or three each year — are freak accidents in which a seemingly nice dog goes bad.

    Others are either aggressive dogs or abusive owners who create accidents waiting to happen. Or they involve a cascade of mistakes, such as an owner failing to neuter a dog, ignoring a previous aggressive incident and then leaving an unsupervised child with the dog. “Once in a while, the dominoes line up and somebody gets killed,” Delise said. “But statistically it’s a very small number.”

    “Severe and fatal attacks will continue until we come to the realization that allowing a toddler to wander off to a chained dog is more of a critical factor in a fatal dog attack than which breed of dog is at the end of the chain.”


  • http://zonersports.com The Zoner

    Are you really going to compare a random Pomeranian attack to a Pit Bull? That’s totally reaching.

    And the very source you cite says this “Pit Bull and Pit-bull-type dogs (21%)”. They lead the pack. Your source also states “Knowing how many Pit Bulls or Rottweilers caused a human fatality has little applicable value, only when examining each case individually can we hope to gain insight into the HUMAN and CANINE behaviors that contributed to these tragic events.”

    To me that’s like saying that all Pits are like bombs. As long as you know–for a fact–how to make sure they don’t detonate then everything is fine. But obviously that’s not the case.

  • Kathleen

    Enough with the hysteria. You are more than FIVE TIMES more likely to be struck by lightening than attacked by a pit bull. Dogs are responsible for app. 20 deaths per year. In 2005 21% of those (4 deaths) were by pit bulls. There are hundreds of thousands of pit bulls in America and 4 of them will explode? You are more likely to choke on a BigMac.

    More children were killed by baby shower gifts THIS YEAR than all the pit attacks EVER. So why not ban baby showers?

    Alcohol-related deaths top 100,000 every year, but it will never be banned. A bottle of vodka in your liquor cabinet is like a bomb, but it doesn’t mean yours should be taken from you because someone else will be irresponsible with their vodka.

    Dogs are ANIMALS which makes them ultimately unpredictable, so yes they are bombs. Pits (specifically) are not like bombs, DOGS are like bombs. Larger dogs are bigger bombs. Pits are very popular so you are hearing more about them exploding. Yes, they lead the pack in maulings because they lead the pack in popularity (for now – another trendy breed will surely replace them) Go ahead and ban them, but while you’re at it you’d better ban Shepherds, Huskies, Danes, Boxers, bulldogs, labs and all the other large breeds because IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE will switch to these breeds when Pits become illegal and the rate of maulings and fatalities will not change – just the name of the breeds responsible.

    I began my participation in this thread saying I wouldn’t leave any dog alone with a stranger or small child, and the research supports that position.

    Dogs are territorial by nature and they are guided by animal instinct. Unfortuately, people think of dogs as miniature humans — little family members — and that attitude is more dangerous than anything. My dog is a dog. He is a cute, cuddly, hilarious, friendly, adorable dog, but he IS A DOG, and I will ALWAYS be sure to keep that in mind. I wish all pet owners would do the same.

  • http://zonersports.com The Zoner

    I can choose to eat a big mac or drink alcohol. I don’t and my kids don’t go to baby showers. I can’t control lightning. But–I can try to control whether or not I believe Pit Bulls should be legal in my village. I will try and do that.

  • Kathleen

    If you really want your kids to be safe, on your way to the village pitbull banning meeting be sure to leave them at home — They are 10,000 times more likely to be killed by a drunk driver than a dog.

  • http://zonersports.com The Zoner


  • Jerrell

    You keep quoting specific years, in ’05 this number happened. In ’79 this breed was top of the list. Your trying to act as if pit bulls have not killed/maimed more people than an other breed of dog and that this trend will only continue to get worse as we are exposed to more and more of these animals. As the Zoner stated, I can’t stop you from being an idiot and doing all the dangerous things you listed but if I have any say in it I will do everything in my power to make sure that no one anywhere near where I live will be able to endanger my children needlessly. I can’t stop drinking, I won’t even bother with taking on the fast food industry but my children will not be killed by you or anyone else’s pet because it doesn’t need to happen, there is no justification for having these dogs other than “i want it so bleh”. There are hundreds of breeds to choose from and if the current trend stays strong we should be getting these animals banned everywhere before you know it which would be awesome.

  • betsy

    If you put a child in a mean situation, beat him, abuse him you find the child can grow up to kill, does that mean that ALL children in these situations will grow up to kill.. ok so kids aren’t dogs.. but each and every animal on the face of this earth can have the same ability to hurt something or even kill.
    I have a mixed breed dog the vet says is most likely a Pit Bull. I have never ever had such a loving, loyal dog in all my life. He looks at me with eyes almost human.
    Talks to me through his eyes and body language. I have another dog that is a dachshund/springer spaniel mix. She is a dog.She likes to cuddle and be pet but shes nothing like the other dog. We have had them from about 4 months old and got them at the same time. They are inseparable at 8# and 60+#. He never hurts her. On the contrary she, the little tiny dog is a pistol. Personally in my life its been the tiny little dogs that have always been the biters. When I grew up the talk was banning German shepherds and Doberman’s. I guess.. folks just like to complain. Animals are sort of like water. As long as you respect its nature it wont drown you!

  • Kimi

    I have three Pit bulls and they all are very loving and gentle. I have 5 cats and they have never been hurt. As a child I was bitten in the face by a spaniel that my friend put in my arms, I did not hurt the animal. It just started biting. 3 months ago my neighbors hunting dog… a beagle by the way attackd my Pitbull. He has scars on his throut and ear. He stood there growling and standing his ground letting the dog bite him until we came out side and chased the dog away. He never bit him once. he never Attempted to bite him either. I have had all ranges of children in my house around my dogs, climbing on them, taking food out of their mouths. taking toys away,…ect. It is the owner that makes them behave that way.
    I am a very responsible Pitbull owner. They are never let out alone. They are never alone with children, under ANY circumstances. They are ALWAYS on a leash. When there are strangers around, WE watch our dogs for signs that they are leary, then WE go somewhere else. WE do these things because our pets ARE stronger than children, because they are Big. But I also have a golden retriever and we treat him EXACTLY the same way.
    The Owners are the ones we should regulate. Before getting a “Bully Breed” we should have a criminal check, and they should have to go through training to understand their dog.
    By the way, my only dog that has ever, snapped at any one was the retriever.

  • http://zonersports.com The Zoner

    “I am a very responsible Pitbull owner. They are never let out alone. They are never alone with children, under ANY circumstances. They are ALWAYS on a leash. When there are strangers around, WE watch our dogs for signs that they are leary, then WE go somewhere else. WE do these things because our pets ARE stronger than children, because they are Big.”

    Doesn’t sound like much of a life for a domestic pet.

  • Zippy the Poop Head

    “Doesn’t sound like much of a life for a domestic pet”

    That statement makes no sense. This should be true of any large animal, from horses right on down. It is a sensible thing to do. Horses (and cows, oddly enough) cause more fatalities and serious injury per year than any dog discussed here. Your idea of killing the domestic pet doesn’t sound like much — oops — any kind of a life at all. And if you check with any trainer worth their salt you will find a much healthier dog who is well trained/maintained and looked after. Dogs are by nature pack animals and establishing that you are the ‘leader’ of the pack is the correct thing to do. The most neurotic dogs are the ones that you probably feel ‘have a good domestic pet life’, eg, the smaller yappy dogs that are cuddled, coddled and treated completely as one of the family.

    Eh, this is a no win afrgument anyway. Facts cannot argue away emotions. JAWS screwed me up for ocean swimming for years… lol.

  • http://zonersports.com The Zoner

    don’t know of any people who have cows and horses as domestic pets. Unless they are on–wait for it—a farm!! Love your name though…

  • http://www.ken-foster.com Ken Foster

    Actually, if you go to the CDC website, they have a long entry in which they talk about the study that is often quoted, telling people that it is flawed, inaccurate and misleading, and that breed of dog should never be considered an indicating factor in the liklihood of a dog to be aggressive. They specify that the study should never be quoted as evidence in support of any ban. But people who love to quote the report also love to ignore that portion of it. Says a lot about the people, I think…

  • http://zonersports.com The Zoner

    “that breed of dog should never be considered an indicating factor in the liklihood of a dog to be aggressive.”

    Says a lot about the CDC.

  • keisha

    i am sitting in my living room this morning reading thru pitbull websites i just happen to have 3 Pitbulls sitting behind me one is a very large male my children are in their room sleeping with a pitbull in bed with them they will be up soon i also have a cat in here somewhere the only one of my dogs that is fixed is the old female that i adopted from the shelter she was my first pit and boy have i gotten an education with these guys i invite you to my home to prove to me first hand how aggressive these dogs are or how dangerous these dogs are my dogs are all registered ukc American Pitbull Terriers i have owned St Bernards Coonhounds Great Pyranese and even a rat terrier and i must say these dogs are the most loyal loving sweet smartest dependable dogs i have ever owned and i think it would be a huge mistake to ban the breed i am sure these people that get some sick enjoyment out of fighting dogs will find another breed to fight and exploit so the people that will be affected from the ban will be responsible owners like me who love and understand the breed do you even realize there is a huge difference between a game pit and other pits i could take you and show you the difference one of my dogs is game bred the others arent they were bred for their show and pull qualities. One thing they all have in common they love kids love me and they dont guard my home so unless you tried to hurt one of my children i could guarantee your safty in my home even alone with my dogs how can i be so sure? I have had a few occasions where people have came into my home when i was gone for diff reasons and 1 of them the dogs had never seen before. I would not be against paying a fee to keep my dogs if there was a permit you had to buy maybe it would discourage people from keeping a yard full of pits on chains. I have heard it all from how animal aggressive these dogs are to they kill people but what i have seen is completely opposite i got my dogs at different times from different places none of them fight none of them bite. so dont tell me i got lucky my dogs are the norm. My family also enjoys hunting and we own guns so with your reasoning we should ban them too if it would save one life. We own 4 wheelers and many people get killed every year on those do you think we should ban those too? People have become very ill and in cases lost limbs due to cat bites and scratches should we ban cats? My daughter was bitten in the eye by a chihuahua should there be a ban on them? it makes me very sad to know people are missing out on such a sweet breed of dog due to ignorance and irresponsible ownership. All animal lovers should pull together and protect this breed instead of trying to destroy it.

  • http://www.ken-foster.com Ken Foster

    “Says a lot about the CDC.”

    Then why do you quote them as evidence of your idiotic opinion? The other organizations you site, The Humane Society and the AVMA, are also against any kind of ban. Because it wouldn’t have any effect in making people safer. Yet you quote them too.

    Says a lot about The Zoner.

  • http://zonersports.com The Zoner

    Where did I quote the CDC?

    My opinion is not idiotic. You can get ten studies this way and ten the other. It boils down to Occam’s Razor to me. There’s no grand conspiracy against Pit owners, or the dogs themselves. But we continually read stories about them attacking. They are just not worth having as residential pets.

  • Ashelee

    Funny, I came across this site while getting more information about why BSL DOESNT work.

    Personally, I LOVE APBTs I think they are a WONDERFUL breed and are GREAT family dogs. Did you know that human agression was bred OUT of the APBT when bull-baiting was banned and people started to get into the sport of dog fighting? Human aggression was bred out of the dogs that were bred for fighting because in the ‘pit’ there was always a referee in the middle incase the fight gets too out of hand. Dogs were not faught to death and when things got really bad the referee would then step in and pull the dogs apart. If a dog were to bite him that dog would lose automatically, and more than likely either be killed or not bred.

    Also I got some information from the American Temperment Test Society:
    APBTs had an 84.1% passing rate in 2006 (this score has been in the high 80′s and 90′s for the past several years), Rottweilers had an 83% pass rate, and Dobermans had a 77% pass rate. On the other hand, Bearded Collies had a 53% pass rate, dachshunds had a 67% pass rate, lhasas had a 69% pass rate, scotties had a 64% pass rate, and shelties had a 67% pass rate.

    While I do not have an APBT, I hope to some day have one. I do however have an Am. Cocker Spaniel (which is one of the leading breeds in dog bites). Our neighbors have 3 APBTs. Their dogs are WONDERFUL, they love their kids and other people. However, my dog does not love other dogs. He tried to attack one of their APBTs before, and you know what their APBT did? walked away, ya seems like a real horrible breed to me.

    You say people shouldnt own APBTs, because they arent worth haveing a residential pets. Then why are Cocker Spaniels, Golden Retrievers, Labs, and the like considered worth having as residential pets?

    Show me statistics, NOT sites or info that comes from someone with a bias, I mean real statistics that support that APBTs are different than other breeds in the fact that they (as in them ALL not just a select few) are vicious and are just out to kill people.

    Also the CDC wouldnt count because the CDC was bias and was done to support BSL, so they didnt mention other breeds that had caused fatal attacks.

    Oh and to back up the other people who have been saying they would never leave their APBTs unattended with strangers or children. I too would NEVER leave my dog (my cocker spaniel) alone with children or strangers. No one should do this, its irresponsible dog ownership.

    The main causes of fatal attacks is irresponsible owners who dont train/socialize their dogs, which leads to aggression, and irresponsible PARENTS who leave their young children unatteneded around dogs (and this is general, not just APBTs but all dogs).

    Also most dog attacks that are labeled as ‘pit bull’ attacks are VERY falsely labeled. In the last 40 years very few dogs labeled ‘pit bulls’ were actually purebred APBTs registered/with papers. Most people dont know the difference between a game bred APBT and a lab mix.

    also 22 people die a year using hair dryers while standing in bath tubs filled with water (found this quite amusing).
    in the last 40 years between 12 and 25 people each year have died from dog attacks, the numbers have not changed in the past 40 years drastically even though the population of canines has very rapidly increased.

    England passed the Dangerous Dogs Act (DDA) in 1991. The DDA essentially banned ‘pit bulls’ (and a few other rare breeds) from the country. Within 5 years, the BBC reported hospitalizations due to dog bites had RISEN 25%! Seeing that the DDA was not reducing the number or severity of dog bites, the government amended the Act at that point (1997). Skip ahead to 2007, when the National Health Service confirms hospitalizations due to dog bites are now DOUBLE the 1996 figures (which were, themselves, already 25% higher than before ‘pit bulls’ were banned).
    The number of serious dog bite injuries has SIGNIFICANTLY INCREASED since ‘pit bulls’ were banned in England.

    According to the city of Winnipeg’s own data, when Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada banned ‘pit bulls’ in 1990, there were 214 reported dog bites that year (with 68 bites by German Shepherds and crosses, 18 bites by Terrier crosses, 16 bites by Labs and their crosses, and 11 bites by ‘pit bulls’). For the decade following Winnipeg’s ‘pit bull’ ban, there were an average of close to 50 MORE dog bites per year, with immediate spikes in bites by German Shepherds and crosses (92 bites in 1991, and 97 bites in 1992); Terrier cross (29 bites in 1991, and 34 bites in 1992); up to 2001, when the top biters were German Shepherd and crosses 64 bites, Rottweiler and crosses 37 bites, and Lab and crosses 30 bites.
    Dog bites actually INCREASED after ‘pit bulls’ were banned in Winnipeg.
    Bites by other breeds spiked after ‘pit bulls’ were banned in Winnipeg.

    There had been just over 500 reported bites, the year Kitchener, Ontario, Canada decided to ban the #8 ‘breed’ in their dog bite statistics (‘pit bulls’, but not the #1 breed, German Shepherds, and not even the #7 breed, Poodles). Eight years later, the city again reported just over 500 dog bites.
    The ‘pit bull’ ban hasn’t reduced dog bites in Kitchener.
    German states enacted sweeping breed bans, only to have the Federal Administrative Court decree that a state cannot ban ownership of a dog based on breed.
    Holland banned ‘pit bulls’ entirely, yet admits that very few ‘pit bulls’ have actually been involved in biting incidents.
    12 U.S. state governments have gone so far as to pass laws making it illegal for any municipality to pass breed-specific ordinances.
    The Supreme Court of Alabama ruled there was no genetic evidence that one breed of dog was more dangerous than another, simply because of its breed.
    2006, Attorneys General in both NWT and Iowa ruled municipal breed bans are unconstitutional.
    March 3, 2006, Ohio Sixth District Court of Appeals finds “‘pit bull’ law” unconstitutional!

  • http://zonersports.com The Zoner

    I’m no lawyer, but I find it very difficult to believe that banning a certain pet in a municipality is unconstitutional.

    As for what is and what isn’t a Pit attack, I’ve read enough about the ones in the last year here in the Chicago area. Temperment scores are irrelevant because of the nature of the attacks–out of nowhere and deadly. 2 combinations I’m not willing to deal with. Everyone’s {its are adorable, lovable and great with kids–unyil they go off.

    A ‘bite’ is also a misnomer. Pits don’t just bite you once and leave, like say a poodle would. They clench and rip.

    If the Supreme court of Alabama doesn;t think that a Pit is more dangerous than a wiener dog, well, they need some new people on the bench.

  • Ashelee

    You cant ban one breed of dog because of certain things that have happened with only a selec few of the breed. Not ALL APBTs attack out of no where. They arent bombs waiting to go off, as you put it. I work as a groomer and have several that come in just for baths and they are the most loving dogs that I have ever met, though the same can not be said about other breeds of dogs such as little yorkies and the like.

    Yes APBTs can have dog aggression issues, which is TOTALLY different than human aggression. Yes I think that APBTs are not for everyone, but neither are labs or goldens. No breed is good for everyone. A girl I work with had a golden who bit her friends 3 year old son in the face. Ripped the skin off his jaw. The golden didnt just bite him he ripped. But the dog was put down after that.

    Again, most dog attacks are misidentified, most are mixes. And again, most people cant tell the difference between a game-bred APBT and a lab mix. Any breed can hold down and rip.

    Actually temperment scores are relevant, it shows that with proper training any breed of dog can have a good stable temperment. A dog that has attacked someone out fo no where doesnt have a stable temperment, and would more than liekly not pass a temperment test. Temperment is 80% genetic in dogs. If people are breeding poor quality dogs that have horible temperments, more often than not their offspring are getting that bad temperment. So yes I would say temperment scores and testing is VERY essential.

    Again, why do you think that any breed is better than an APBT? What makes Am. Cocker Spaniels able to be good companion pets (even though last year they were the number one breed with the most dog bites), and not APBTs?

    A true APBT, isnt necessarily the best guard dog. They were bred to bait bulls, and as guard dogs on farms to keep their livestock alive (not from people). They were bred to hunt, to drive livestock, and as family companions. But they do well in all aspects of training. They also do well in protection (this being protection training and TOTALLY different then someone sticking a dog in their backyard so no one gets in (these dogs have usually not been socialized or trained at all, unlike a trained protection dog which will only attack if there is a threatening situation or if the handler gives them a command, but the handler also has enough control of the dog to have them stop whenever the handler says so)). They were no bred to guard a house, that was not their intended purpose. Someone that has an APBT as a guarding dog for their house, and the dog was not trained in protection work, does not have a mentally sound dog or a dog that is true to standard. A true to standard APBT should be ENTHUSIASTIC about meeting new people and happy to see new people.

    I suggest before making your “assuptions” based on biased reports in the news, you read up about the breed. KNOW the breed standard and how a TRUE APBT should act, not some mixed breed dog, or some overly inbred dog, or some dog that has been carelessly bred just for the heck of it.

    There are many APBT in us history, that never attacked anyone. Petey from the Lil Rascals was a registered purebred APBT, worked with kids his WHOLE LIFE and was owned by a young boy. Did you know that during World War 1 an APBT represented our country on all of our posters about the war? Also there are tons of APBTs used as drug detection dogs with the police, and even as search and rescue dogs. Search and Rescue dog Dakota was used to search for Lacy Peterson in California and was used to search for the remains of the astronauts of the challenger disaster. There are several APBTs used for service dogs and therapy dogs.
    So again, do your research before deciding a whole breed of dog should be whipped out because of a select few PEOPLE who decide to beat their dogs into submission and who are ignorant and dont know the first THING about training a dog, so the dog gets tied up outside with no socialization or training so knows no different. And as said before, ANY breed put into these situations would end up being the same way.

  • http://zonersports.com The Zoner

    I must say most people do not even read 2 sentences of huge comments. Which was the case with this last book you just wrote here.

    I did read the last part. I did do my research; you just don’t agree with it.

  • Sandi

    I find it very interesting that now the dogs mauled a poor innocent man when the first stories that came out could not figure out why he was on the property when it was closed. The “victim” is now singing a different tune. The owner has not changed his statement in all this time. Was alcohol involved in this attack? So many unanswered questions, so few answers.
    Any dog can bite, any dog can kill. Any human is 1000 times more likely to kill than a dog. To say we do not need to have family pets is the main theme we hear from the Animal Rights folks all the time. Got news for you, go into the bible and see if God did not give us dominion over the “beasts of the fields”. He did not make me a monkey’s uncle or sister or mother, he made me smarter to take care of his animals for him.
    Why are they attacking APBTs? Simple, the media has created a monster out of them and the AR folks are using that with some very cleaver “spins” to deny us the ownership of the breed. Once they have banned the ownership of APBTs then they will move on to the next breed until there are no animals owned by humans. What a sad world that would be. How many lives would be lost without the help of our four footed friends to find a lost child?
    There is nothing wrong with the dogs, it is the irresponsible owners that we must get a handle on. It is also the people who have some blame in the attack that need to own up to their part. Guess that would not make the money from the lawsuits very much but right is right. We need to be adults and own up to our own stupidity.
    Not to know that some living creature loves you totally and unconditionally for no other reason than you are there.

  • http://zonersports.com The Zoner

    Who said we don’t need family pets? Saying all dogs bite is lame. If silky terrier bites me compared to a pit bull it’s a totally different story. One would make me laugh and the other would send me to the hospital.

    “Once they have banned the ownership of APBTs then they will move on to the next breed until there are no animals owned by humans. What a sad world that would be. How many lives would be lost without the help of our four footed friends to find a lost child?”

    That’s hilarious. You should write comedy. Yes, people want to ban pit bulls because it’s part of a secret worldwide conspiracy to rid the world of animals.

  • keisha

    just wondering zoner which dogs would you ban and which would you allow? would there be a weight limit?Any large dog can send you to the hospital so can a small dog if he bites you in the right place like i said before a chihuahua bit my daughter nearly missing her eye. so what breeds need to go APBT? Mastiffs?Chows?mixedbreeds?Bulldogs?English Bulldogs? Coondogs?Bloodhounds?GermanShepards?StBernards?Rottys?Dobermans?getting rid of one (which you cant do because the people who are also abusing these dogs and make them mean dont care much about the law)breed of dog that has bitten people still leaves many more to take its place.As for me I thought I lived in a free Country and had the right to own and breed whatever kind of dog I like as long as I am responsible for their care and needs. I guess im lucky I still have rights where i live but people like you are tryin to take them away next thing you ll be telling me what kind of car to drive and how many kids i can have

  • http://zonersports.com The Zoner

    What does living in a free country have to do with owning a vicious animal? So can I get a lion for my backyard? Again, this is a community issue. If the people in a village or community choose to ban it than so be it. All the pro-pit arguments really wander off into some extreme rights issues. That you equate your civil rights with your ‘rights’ to own an animal is strange.

  • daniel

    everyone has a different opinion about dogs. any dog doesnt matter how well it s been trained can bite at any time, this is beacuse every dog that exists gets and instinct if they are in danger and this instinct sometimes is againt their will(for exmple they ve been trained no to bite) , so if they are threatened by other dogs they might bite. We cant just say pit bulls are dangerous, they should not all be killed. if we wanna find out what dogs are the strongest and most dangerouis we need to look at their genetic make up and also compare them to one other wild animal. this wild animal is eurpian wolf, which always attacks humans, (even if not threatend). the only dog on this planet that can beat this wild animal is american pitbull. there’s been a research conducted in serbia and montengros forests to find out how many of these wolves exist. 30 were destroyed by 4 american pit bulls. their jaw closed is equivavelent to a crocodile bite which causes a pressure of 2000 kg on the persons body part thats bitten. only american pit bull terrier should be looked at closely so the decision can be reached on wheather or not these dogs should be allowed to live. all other dogs will react according to the way they ve been brought up by their owners and also their instinct. however, no other dog can produce as much damage to an individual as americal pitbull can. the strength of their jaw is unimaginable,one bite can leave a person armless because when they bite , they dont stop until the body part of the victim is disconnected from the rest of the body. all other pit bulls share one same feature with american pit bull, that is their jaws lock if they are being provoked when they bite someone. german shepard as we all know is the smartest dog but not the strongest. they rate as number 1 , when biting people, beacuse they bite more then any other dog.

  • Ashelee

    APBTs jaws DO NOT LOCK. hahahah if you are going to make an agruement atleast know your facts. No dog’s jaws lock. And you cant test the strength of a dogs jaw because you dont know if they are biting their hardest or not. Not all APBTs bite to rip off an arm lol.

    Actually the smartest breed of dog is the border collie, second would be the standard poodle. And actually German Shepherds are pretty strong, and to say they arent is quite funny. They are the most commonly used dogs for police work and protection training and such, especially ring sport and schutzhund.

  • Kathleen


    Copy and paste this link into your web brower and visit this site to see if you can actually identify the dogs you’d like to ban.
    It is a link to a quiz that tests your ability to identify a “pit bull.” Most people cannot. Makes you wonder how many innocent dogs are swept up in the pit bull mania, and how many so called pit bull attacks are actually one of these other breeds.

  • keisha

    Daniel please get some real facts Zoner you didnt answer my Question ban just APBT or what all “bully” breeds what about staffordshire terriers (I have one akc calls it an AMStaff ukc calls it an APBT) Daniel what dogs are you refering to as other pits there is only one American Pitbull Terrier anything else called a pitbull is just slang and your facts are wrong according to you no APBT has ever bitten without locking on and ripping off a body part I assure you that is wrong.My husbands brother was bitten by an APBT it did not rip off his arm it was a regular dog bite Zoner I am speaking of my right to have whatever dog i want in my home as long as i am respnsible for it and some people keep lions as pets in their home that is their right too as long as they are responsible for it and pay the outragous fees and permits

  • http://zonersports.com The Zoner

    Here in Cook County the stats indeed show Pit Bulls as having the most bites. Again, it’s a community based decision.

  • Annie

    150 people a year are killed by falling coconuts. Less than three are killed by pitbulls. Will we ban coconuts? No. Of course not. A person of a particular race murders someone, so do we have a genocide of that race? Certainly not. Your perception of pitbulls is wrong entirely.

    Firstly, out of the 150+ breeds temperament tested by the pitbull ranks at the fourth best breed. You are far more likely to be attacked by a bulldog, labrador, yorkie, poodle, or lhasa apso. The top four biting breeds, in order, are German Shepherds, Rottweilers, Cocker Spaniels, and Golden Retrievers. Dachshunds are the most dangerous biters, because they will not release, and will continue to maul. There have been numerous reports of infants mauled o death by pomeranians.

    Pitbulls/Staffordshires are noted by the AKC and UKC for thier love of children. The dogs are incredible loyal, loving, and eager to please, which makes it all too easy for terrible people to put them in a cage and watch them tear eachother to bits. Pitbulls were the number one family dog from the beginning to mid-20th century, and only until dogfighters earned the dog its untrue and unfair reputation. After all, a labrador could be easily taught to fight and maim.

    200+ pitbulls are killed by people a day, in L.A. alone. They hardly stand a chance.

    What it boils down to is this: Blame the deed, not the breed. It makes no sense t let one bad apple spoil the bushel. I’ve had pitbulls all my life, and each and every one has been sweet, gentle, loyal, affectionate, friendly, and all-around wonderful. They were all true friends and never hurt a fly. My dogs were no exception to the rule, either. Given loving homes and owners, every pitbull will be the same. I can’t let you blindly slander a fantastic breed of dog and ignorantly condemn them for the violent situations they are unwillingly thrust into. By saying that we need to eradicate them, you’re absolutely no better than the monsters who throw them in the fighting rings.

  • http://zonersports.com The Zoner

    Thanks for the laugh this morning.

  • diamond

    I have a pit and hes a loving dog. Never would bite anyone or anything! Any dog is an unpredictable dog i have a rhodesain ridgback also and i wouldnt leave her alone with anyone either just because i know all dogs is capable of attacking someone. You cant blame the dog because of the owner or the rep they got and alot of you people think “oh thats a pitbull hes gonna bite someone and kill them” its not true i know a lady whos had a pit for 5 years he wouldnt hurt a fly. Pits automatically have a bad rep cause all the storys about they attacked someone or their fighting dogs. Any dog can do that not just a pit, theres a lady who lives on my street and her retriever attacked someone for NO reason. Really the only reason that u can bring it out of a pit is if u hurt them or was abused at some point in there life. SO PLEOPLE PLEASE STOP SAYING ALL PITS ARE BAD. THERE NOT MEAN DOGS AND THEY DONT ALL NEED TO BE PUT DOWN!

  • Megan

    I work at two no-kill shelters, and I’ve met hundreds of Pit Bulls. They are one of the best breeds a person could have. First of all, an animal is how you raise it. If your good to it and properly socialize it from a young age, it will be friendly and safe. Jerks who get their hands on Pit Bulls beat them, trained them to fight, and totally brutalize them. This is what produces unpredicatable, aggressive dogs. THIS COULD HAPPEN TO ANY BREED. I’ve seen violent Beagles, labs, and many other breeds this country thinks so highly of. It’s time people stop singleing out Pit Bulls- it is canine racism. The media, instead of showing people the thousands of Pit Bulls used in search and rescue, therapy, and for companionship, decides to concentrate on the tiny percentage of Pit Bulls who haven’t been raised properly and have aggression issues. The media gives people a false sense of Pit Bulls. If anyone really wants to find the truth about Pit Bulls, go to large no-kill shelter and walk with them, play with them, cuddle with them and you will find yourself falling in love with the world’s most misunderstood and victimized creature.

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